Hi,

Just wondering in re to DOG COATS; There is SHORT, MEDIUM & LONG.
Having bred & shown dogs in melb for a number of years before prior to moving to qld I have found that coat descriptions differ.
To me a short coated dog would be the likes of a American Bulldog, Bullmastiff, Boxer etc, etc.
But when people say they have a short coated koolie I would call it medium dense coat. Could a breeder please rectify COAT description of the "koolie" for me?
I am seeking a SHORT coated bitch pup, but seem the different terminology of short coats differ with each individual.[color=#FF99FF]
Are there any koolies out there that do have the coat of the dogs mentioned above?

Cheers

Breaker

I think the Koolie differs in that is carries an undercoat, not like the sleek guard coat of the other breeds, someone with longer experience with them could answer better but with them carrying an undercoat & having long hair versons, & a definate medium lonng coat between the 2.

I don't know if there are any true short coats like your talking about in the Koolies, maybe there are I will let someone else confirm, but I feel being a working dog the undercoat serves purpose to protect them in the extremes they are working in whereas a true short coat deliveres minimal protection other than enabling the dog to stay cool.

Hi Breaker

When the club first started we had a dozen or so people here in Victoria. There had been discussion between us for years prior to the beginning of the club and general opinion was the koolie had an undercoat but there was a relatively short coat, less common a bit longer coat with feathering and occassionally a longer coat. To keep the registration forms unclutted enough to keep people interested in filling them out but at the same time using them to collect information on just what dogs were like we tried to keep the options to a minimum number of choices. But as the club has evolved and particularly as people from other states and environments got involved we found that different coats are found in different areas. In Queensland and areas of NSW there seems to be what is a smooth coat, no great length and no undercoat. Other areas have long coats as common. Obviously in warmer climates a smooth coat is better for the dogs comfort, but say in Gippsland or along the great divide winter can be pretty harsh and an undercoat would help keep the dog dry and warm. The interesting thing is that sometimes people don't know the other exists at all, they think koolies are all long short or smooth coated and are suprised to hear they aren't in other areas.
This is why it is difficult to specify that a koolie should be this, or that to look at (including colour, some people didn't know about red merles others didn't know about blue merles) just because we aren't used to seeing them because somewhere they will be common place.
Fortunately they have a lot of other traits in common.

Smooth coated koolie would be great, especially for qld climate. Do you know any breeder that has specifically bred smooth coated koolies.
To gain the smooth coat I wonder what breed they bred to gain the smooth coat?
It wouldnt of been the BC as there coat is short with undercoat or long?
I would consider the Catahoula but every 3-4 generations to keep the hair smooth. But you would have to breed on a regular basis to get to 4 generations in which I only breed when I want a pup myself or new blood in the lines.

I would like to hear from any SMOOTH coated breeders out there?????

Cheers

are there Catahoula's out here?

I thought they were an American dog. I didnt think there was any in Australia
cheers
Danni

Consider that even though the register has only been active since 2000 (the longest active koolie register) the breed has been evolving since the mid to late 1800's, so long ago that it is difficult to research their beginnings. But we do know that in the last 50 or so years there has been some outcrossing if for no other reason than there wasn't a koolie mate available so the best working dog was used. Those resulting in smooth coat were probably from kelpie crosses, but they could be 10 or more generations ago and the trait has carried through.
I have been told that some hunting enthusiasts have bought some Catahoula's here to cross over their hunting dogs but that may be rubbish, they certainly aren't common anyway.

No I didn't think Catahoula's were out here but I'd be interested to hear if they are.

Hi Breaker

I know what you mean re short coats and short dense coats. We do breed Koolies with a short smooth coat. We also have dogs that I would consider to be short coated but have a differenct thick dense coat.

I lost alot of my pictures when our computer blew up, but attached a couple (not the best) that might point out the difference. The little dilute red merle has what I call a thoroughbred coat, very fine and short. The tri-coloured dogs' coat is much denser and a little longer but still what I'd call short. His mother was medium coated and his father short coated.

The short,smooth coated dogs have a lot finer and thiner coat than the short dense coat. Whilst their coats are short and fine, I think they possibly don't have the rats tail of a doberman or bull terrier. They still have a small amount of feathering around the tail and hind legs.


Cheers

Sheringa

There are Catahoulas bred in north queensland used for pigging.

Hi,

Yeah Catahoula are here & have been for a number of years now. Sold my male I had a number on months ago now to NT.
There are a number of genuine breeders out there.
They are used for many situation...pretty versatile breed.
The Loisiana Catahoula is being marketed in the pig hunting area but only work well IMO when 2 or more in a pack.
I have contacts with a number of cat breeders here in Aust & the USA & have seen a number of them pretty handy with cattle if you are looking for a dog with alot of bark.
Unfortunately you get your early maturers & your late, majority that are here in aust are LATE.
As for stamina, trainibility & working ability my koolie ran rings around my cat & had more upstairs!!

Hope this helps.

Hi Sheringa,

Love the look of your red pup.
Thats the closest to short coat I have seen, but as you stated you still get the feathering.
Interesting how even the closest of short coated dogs the genetics of the medium coat still prevails in the feathering.

I am in North Queensland and have 2 Kooies from Sheringa. During summer they have a fine very short coat and but I have noticed that with winter (we are on the Atherton Tablelands and winters are very cold) they have grown the feathering around the edges and a thicker coat although I would still class them as very short coated. Will be interesting to see if they shed this feathering in summer. They had no problems with adapting to the hotter temperatures up here and are quite capable of going on a 10 to 20 km horse ride during the middle of the day.

The other Koolie is from Brisbane (Turramina) and she has what I would call a medium coat but is very fine and has no under coat at all. She is the same as above, not affected by the heat at all.

The Koolie from Brescott has a short coat, but extremely thick and heavy.

while the koolie goes on meeting our needs Australia wide their coat, size, colour and type will always be diverse.
People will identify or describe their types to also meet their needs, so I guess we had better get used to sending photos to get what we are looking for across to the breeders we may want to purchase from, this should avoid any future confusion and make for excellent talking points

I think the diversity of types is so exciting in Koolies.



It seems to me that one of the things that will protect the breed into the future is that the diversity of acceptable types will reduce the temptation to inbreed too much. Trying to get them all looking alike as if you were breeding to a show standard doesn't do a breed any good in the long term IMHO.



Libby

There will always be the prefered favorite and of course the natual selection.
Can one type meet all needs it hasn't happened in two hundred years but who knows what the future holds.