Been watching tails a lot lately and observing Paxy's which has always been quite upright and curled over. Out of the following descriptions I would call hers a wheel!
I've just been wondering is this a common koolie trait or does it vary like the ears?
Like ears, tails come in a tremendous variety of shapes, lengths, amounts of fur, and tailsets (positions). Among them:

Corkscrew: Short and twisted, such as a Pug's
Docked: Shortened by surgery or other method, usually two or three days after birth; see docking
Odd: Twisted, but not short. Uncommon. Tibetan Terriers have odd tails.
Saber: Carried in a slight curve like a saber
Sickle: Carried out and up in a semicircle like a sickle
Squirrel: Carried high and towards the head, often with the tip curving even further towards the head.
Wheel: Carried up and over the back in a broad curve, resembling a wheel.


You can also see the piloerection she frequently gets in this photo - down the centre of her neck and her shoulder blades! She was 4 1/2 mths in this photo.

ETA: Sorry about the size of the picture, I tried to make it smaller!

Ceejays is a saber I guess, but when she is just walking and relaxed it usually hangs down like a fox. The only time it is upright is when she is excited or on high alert.

I love Paxy's markings on the back of her neck.

I guess Wal's is a sabre, with a little bend at the end up and to the right. Recently a read a description of the 'collie family' on a site that had one of the characteristics of the family as being that bend in the tail. Since then I've been paying attention to tails too. Wal doesn't have as much of a bend as most Borders, I think.Click to view attachment

Wal's tail is pretty low-set, and he has a reasonably sloping croup. This is about as good a pic as I have that really shows the shape of his back end. It was taken when he was sick about a yr ago, so he doesn't look his best, and is letting his spine and belly sag down. Click to view attachment It's a bit more low set looking now that he's stronger. And he doesn't very often take it higher then this, mostly he wags it in a slightly erratic helicopter. Click to view attachment

most of my guys are sabres, Quin is a fox i almost called him that lol

Dice's is usually carried similar to Wal's, but without the bend to the side I think - must have a close look. When he's really wound up, it comes up so it starts out horozontal, and the last half points up and slightly forward.
I've never seen him put his hackles up like that photo of Paxy.
I would categorise his as Saber too.
He has a lovely sweeping wag, side to side, at mid height.
The Welshies have the most adorable high speed waggle of their wee tails. You don't get the subtle end of tail wag with them though, since that bit is missing.
Most of Dice's tail wagging would hardly be visible with a docked tail. Actually he's not a big tail wagger. :-)

Thanks for your replies. Seems Paxy is so far the odd one out. She's not a big tail wagger either, except when she's sees another dog. I've wondered sometimes whether it has something to do with the carriage of her tail! When we did CGC she was knocked out first round in the tail wagging contest!! To me it seems that dogs that have had their tail docked seem to develop a delightful bottom wiggle as if to make up for the loss!

Bluedog, do you notice that Paxy wags more to one side than another when she's wagging at another dog? I have a paper where they found that dogs wagged more to one side than the other depending on what they were looking at. I have wondered whether the bend in the end of Wal's tail had any significance in relation to this.

This seems to be another case were I've made an assumption about Koolies based on Wal. I assumed they would all (or many at least) have the tail bend, but it seems he's the odd one out in this regard.

Is that the study with regards to, I think it was wagging more to the left when they liked something/someone? I haven't seen it in full, only bits in the paper and references to it. Is there a link to it?
I shall try to be more observant of her tail movements!lol I usually watch the front of the dog as it gives more away about what's happening but am trying to look at tail sets as a sort of secondary, flow on thing. I don't think I explained that too well!
I've wondered whether Paxy has more of a spitz look to other dogs with the upright ears, curled tail. Noticed a comment on DOL the other day about some dogs not being able to read "spitz" types but have not noticed any problems with Paxy but at the moment she is still very young and often initiates play with other dogs.

I have a print-out of it (not right in front of me) but didn't save it to my hard-drive for some reason. I think this link is for the full article, anyway, it's probably the 'useful' stuff at the least. http://fusion.sas.upenn.edu/caterpillar/fi...a%20et%20al.pdf

After I put up that post mentioning the wagging the other day I paid a bit more attention to Wal's wagging (only at me, who I'm pretty sure he likes;-) and he was slapping the tip of his tail against his left side, but only about 30deg past straight on the right. I wonder whether laterality makes a difference. (Wal is right-pawed, I'm pretty sure, without actually testing him. That seems to be his preference.)

I would expect some of the issues that apply to Spitz dogs might also to her (although my view is that it is really the ruff around the neck that is the biggest potential issue for them, as they can soften their ear and tail positions, if they are actually sociable and want to intereact with the other dog). I suspect that dogs with light eyes might also statistically be more at risk of freaking out other dogs, too, and dogs that tend to do any herd-y type things with other dogs. But I suspect that if she were not very fortunate in having a mum who has prioritised her social development, Paxy might have issues with interacting with other dogs, because of her character (excitable, intense - as suggested by her putting her hackles up) as well as because of her morphology.

We used to have a Keeshond, and she was a sweet natured dog, never showed agression to any other dog, but twice she was attacked out of the blue. We figured it was a combination of factors.
Large ruff looking like aggressive hackles up really high.
Big fluffy tail held up over the back permanently - again, dominant/agressive language.
Very open angulation of leg bones both front and rear in many spitz breeds, causing a short strutting stride no matter what their mood really is, again this is something you see in dogs challenging one another.

Keesies etc really do have to be much 'better' with other dogs than the average, to avoid issues. It's lucky in their case that they are usually so nice. I love Keeshonden - and I reckon it's real love - because I really don't like the way they look (or sound). But the ones I've known have been so lovely that I'd love to live with one anyway.

sonnys tail is a wheel, will see if i can get a decent pic of him.

Thanks Bekk! It's interesting to see the variety in the tails.

I would say Boz is a saber.

When he is alert and active mainly. Other than that it sits down like a fox when he is just walking around.

My other dog Tash is definitely somewhere between a sickle and a squirrel when she is alert.

I love watching their tails... when Boz gets super excited and wags his tail, it sort of spins in a circle like a helicopter

ill have to watch his tail closer but i think raz is the squirrel it stands straight up and the tip falls towards his head (from memory) he also does the helicopter thing :) its very cute and he does the body wiggle :) i love seeing him do that too he looks so happy

ok here is one of sonny standing, will have to wait until later to get one of him running he curls it right over and he becomes a calender dog lol

ok i was wrong with my original diagnosis of raz's tail..ok

when he is calm/relaxed his tail is low and carried like a saber

when he is showing energy/small excitement the tail goes to a sickle

then when he is off leash, so maybe for confidence or excitement his tail becomes the squirrel

Wow, Mac's tail seems to vary.

If he's just calmly trotting around the yard he has a saber tail, with a slight kink upwards at his butt.

Trotting around with more vigor or if something has got him on edge, it's straight up and out slightly towards his head, kinda like a squirell I guess.

Mac is also a big tail wagger. Hubby doesn't know whether we should pad his tail, or just the area around him.

If he's just saying a little "hello" or waiting patiently for you to say hello it's from side to side (havn't been able to work out which side, left or right he starts)

Even noticed when we are walking to school he has a slight wag.

If he's really excited it's like a helicopter. It's amazing he hasn't taken off yet. So if any of you see a blue merle with a white blaze down his chest flying over head, please let me know.

sonnys tail when he is running