This is just something that wandered into my head today while throwing hay over fences (usually when I think of other things while doing this I stick my foot in a hole and fall over!!).

How do you pick a good puppy for agility, what are the signs, traits that indicate to you this little guy will do well? Say at or around the 8 week age.

Hey Silouette,

A good agility puppy should be one that loves their toys and loves to play. I think toy drive is one of the most important thing an agility puppy can have. They should be Med to High drive be out going and not reserved as they have to be able to deal with competition situations with lots of dogs and people. The higher the drive the better but some people prefer Medium as they usually don't go quite as hard and sometimes can be a little eaiser to train. (not as full on). A dog that likes their food will also be a great help as a lot of training involves food rewards. That is everything that I can think of at the moment but I'm sure there is lots more.

Thanks,

Kym

thanks Kym, all good points. I'm thinking all suggestions here could form a good little article for the club website..

Kym has some good points, toy and food drive are pretty important when looking at motivational style training methods. Although I'm a relative beginner at agility I would also be looking for a dog that comes from parents of good solid temperament ie not shy, timid dogs as agility requires dogs to work at distance from handlers at times and timid dogs are often more reluctant to do distance work as well as coping with different competition environments. I'm not saying that they can't do the work but sometimes it involves a lot more work with regard to training than with a more confident dog.

i agree with every thing said above BUT then you will get dogs like spice she was scared of other dogs and people not very interested in toys at all but she did very well at agility training and i think she would have done very well in comps but i moved to the bush so she and i both missed out which was a shame as we both loved it, Spices drive was food and praise she just loves to please and that is another thing that you have to look for a need to please i find these type of dogs are better to train then a toy mad dog but that is just me i have started 4 dogs at agility little gypsy was the first and she has that need to please plus a medium toy drive and a real crazy for chicken or sausage lol the next was tobby big toy drive but lacking the need to please then kearby he was the same as gypsy and last was spice no real toy drive but a big need to please and also loved her treats......i hope this helps someone in choosing their next agility dog shy dogs can be champs if they live to please you

Shy dogs can definitely excel at agility and dogs that are dog aggressive can as well. Bella our Koolie was shy and also had fear aggression with other dogs and now she is an awesome agility dog but if I had the choice of picking a puppy from a litter now I would go with the points I have already said. It is hard doing comps when you have to watch out for every dog that you have to walk past just in case your dog decides to eat it(which you can get kicked out of the comps for). I have trained 3 agility dogs now and I'm also a club secretary and instructor at an agility club. I have to say that training is totally different to the comp scene and dogs that do well in training can find the comps way too much. The ADAA comps now have a Not for competition choice where you can reward in the ring at comps with a toy that you have to hang on to which helps build the confidence of the dogs if they are scared of that situation. If I had to pick from a shy dog that was unsure of other dogs and people to a happy out going dog that loves people and other dogs and nothing really fazed it the more confident dog would win hands down.

Absolutely Kym, same things I look for. :-) A pup that has a strong drive to play with toys, wants to interact with people, and is willing to compete with littermates to do so. I look for a pup who is self confident, who will startle at a loud noise, or some other scary thing, BUT will then recover and investigate. A decent food drive is very useful too.
If I can get all that in a pretty package, so much the better!!!
<Ha Ha!>
Having said that, I've not been in a position to look for those traits in the last two dogs I've got... and had to trust Tjukurpa to do it for me...

I would prefer a pup who has been on a lot of different surfaces, steady and unsteady, soft, hard, wet, dry etc. A breeder can make a big difference to the self confidence of a pup by what they do with their babies.

There is no place in the way I train for forceful methods, but then again, I don't want to have to spend a lot of time working through worries before the dog can cope with agility, when I could start with good raw material.

It's for that reason that I don't want a rescue to train for agility. Not saying that a rescue can't do it, or enjoy it, just that I don't have the patience to deal with any baggage or un-teach what it may have learned in a previous home.

Hmm, got a bit side tracked there, but never mind. The first para is what I look for. :-)

Bluedog makes a good point too, the immediate family are definitely worth looking at, even if they are not agility dogs, their work drive/play drive, is the heritage of that pup, and if parents, older siblings, half sibs, uncles/aunts etc have strong sheep herding drive, or say a pet that is always bringing a ball, and insisting on playing, or has been taught lots of party tricks, or a dog that has been taught as a drug detector dog, all point to a strong ability to be trained in the family.

All you have to do is take that ability and point it in the direction you want :-)

all good points...i think raz fits all those descriptions...he was the noisy one in the petshop...he loves people and dogs and chicken lol and his tug toy. he does startle also penny then go and investigate :) i have an agility boy...now just to practise :/

I think the key to a good agility dog lies with the breeder and their honest assessment with the puppies as they are the ones that really know these pups inside out. I also would not sell a dog to someone just for agility as I need to know that in the event this dog does not work out for agility that the dog will still be an vital member of the family as sadly a number of dogs (not Koolies mind you) have been "handed" back to breeders recently because it just wouldn't focus on the owner ( something that most people feel was the owners fault - not the dogs). So if the people want a dog first that fits into their lifestyle that has the ability to do agility then I would look for the following.

1) I like a puppy with a tad of attitude but also one that checks back in of its own choice instead of "check in with ya later"

2) I like one that when turned over struggles a bit then accepts being told what to do. I steer clear of the fighter.

3) I dont agree that you have to like the parents temperament as the parents could very easily be a result of environmental issues and this is where experience comes into it and where the breeders honesty also comes into it as well. I think that while hereditary temperaments can be part of the issue a lot of these can be overcome with the correct training and how the puppy is trained and treated when they arrive at 8 weeks. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but they would be rare.

4) tugging and playing are all learned behaviours that is up to the new owner to pursue and grow. All puppies tug when they are form 4 weeks onwards but lose the drive when the drive is not nurtured in the new home.

In the "other breed" we are involved in and have been breeding in for 15 years now we have come across some absolute nutters of perspective owners to put it mildly. We have had requests to take said puppy in the car when we go out and take it on outings to the banks and grocery store as well to get said puppy used to new environments. The answer to that is a big fat no as said puppy will stay safe,happy and disease free until it is time to go to its new home as they gain little from that type of exposure early on and usually those nutters that have such request do not end up with said puppy from us. ( sorry - side tracked).

So picking an agility puppy out of a litter I think comes down purely to the breeder and knowing each puppy inside out. It is the breeders job to steer the buyer to the right puppy for them rather than let them pick a puppy because of colour or markings as ultimately the owner will be back onto you when things go pear shaped. As for Koolie puppies( I think as I am new to Koolies) It would be the dog with out working drive who likes a cuddle and human interaction then the rest is up to the new owner to shape how they want. I also think as a breeder its okay to say no to someone if you know if your heart that dog will not fit that homes requirements and my mum matches the personality of the dog the the buyers requirements and they are only shown those dogs that will fit into their house ( the rest are "sold") so save the puppy bouncing back as its to timid or to outgoing for the new home.

So all in all, I would like my (agility) puppy picked out no later than 6 weeks of age and then have the assistance of the breeder to help puppy on the right road for me to take over. For example I asked Kerrie to not expose Bug to any stock or any herding work and also asked her to treat Bug in front of her where she treats behind her for her stock dogs. I didnt ask her to have her over different surfaces etc as puppies need to be just that until they go to their new home. They will explore on their own and there really is only so much a breeder can do in those few weeks when they are up and running. I would prefer to have my dog in a pack learning pack behaviour problems and Ill deal with the exposure when the puppy is with me.

And just on a side note in the event people might think I am obsessed with agility ( which I am not as I live to far away from anywhere to be obsessed with agility - oh - and have a life as well!), Bug could break her leg tomorrow and never run in her lifetime and I will still adore her and worship the ground she walks on as a dog is a friend first and foremost that I choose to spend time doing agility with (plus its a fantastic way to get away from the kids for the weekend).

On the other hand as a perspective owner I think its vitally as important to find a breeder who does know their puppies inside out and can tell you at 4 weeks how each puppy in the litter has progressed with their personalities. A lot of breeders really have no idea on what the puppies are really like and dont spent a lot of time with them so if people are looking for a dog that has special requirements finding the right breeder is just as important as finding the right dog.

Now that was WAY longer than I planned - sorry about that.

As a farmer, non regular breeder and innocent of all things agility/obedience/show world, I wondered if someone came to me and asked 'which pup would suite agility' I wouldn't have had a clue what to look for...or so I thought. I now realise the most important thing to look for is...the purchaser, are they going to love and nuture each puppy as we would our own and as you all obviously do and if so all puppies would have a great chance of success.

It scares me that people buy dogs as a commodity to only succeed at their chosen field and if they don't it's the dogs fault - get rid of it. It is one reason I am happy for the breed and club to travel a bit below the radar, so when people say 'koolies are hard to find' I know if they have persisted and researched the breed and breeders and waited if needed, that there is a very good chance they are a cherisher...not a chucker!

Royalla I understand what you mean by a shy dog, it's special to be able to develop a relationship that brings out the best in a shy koolie so much that it excells in what it does.

Any more thoughts would be appreciated...thank you all.

Just wanted to say, any dog I get is with me for life. Agility champ or not. :-)
For all my emphasis on agility, they are my beloved pets first and always.

That's obvious Penny! Not casting doubt on anyone who visits here.

I'd also be thinking about structure. I'd be looking for a dog that was longish rather than tall, with plenty of angulation to their shoulders and not too much to their back legs (don't think backleg over-angulation is too much of an issue in Koolies), and with a full length tail. There are some show people who think that at a certain age (7wks?) pups briefly have their adult proportions and you can judge a lot about the way they will look when they grow up. But I really don't know if that's true.

I'd also be interested in the size the pup was likely to be as an adult. Taller dogs tend to be slower (because Agility involves frequent turns) and height will determine who a dog will compete against. For agility I'd always try to get the smallest otherwise well-suited dog I could, but I guess that's a personal preference.

Hi Guys
This is an interesting topic and just had to put my two bobs worth lol.
All of my puppies I have picked out myself. Probably not the best way of picking out puppies but its just gut instinct just something that bonded and that's the pup. Its just something there that I just had to have. None of them have flopped thank god. But I have noticed the female coolies are sensitive dont want to do anything wrong etc and just want to please me. I never did any puppy testing or anything like that. One of things I do look for is a light build frame dog. When I picked Gabby out she was sitting up on the verandah with the breeders son (4 year old)Not coming once to me. When I saw her there was something there and I wanted her I played with the other 16 puppies but I kept on wanting her. The breeder bought her and her brother down closer to the city. Her brother was off checking out everything and there was little Gabby whinging and not walking to go off and do a wee. but I tell you what she is the best dog that I have. She does amazing tricks ie picking a coin in a bottle. got all agility titles we are working on agility champion and only needs one more for her obedience champion. Even if she flopped she would still be living with me as they are for life. I think it boils down to the bond how you train and if you give the information clearly and not changing the criteria and confusing the dog.My other coolie Xena I never saw her parent just her fell in love and she got her Obedience and agility champion titles and has done lots of firsts in both obedience and agility and same with my kelpie except she didnt go as good in agility as I didnt know what I was doing. The only one I didnt bond with was the Jack Russell and I didnt bond with him and he belonged to my ex husband and he wasnt a pleasure at all.

Thanks guys, it is certainly interesting to see the point regarding structure. Any job an animal does usually lends itself to a particular structure relevant to the stresses the each job brings to the animal. For someone who doesn't know it is good to see an explanations.

It is wonderful to me to hear that such a successful team of trainer and dogs can stand up and say it's worked because we have a great relationship, so understandable to hear when describing koolies to me and a joy to hear when used in relation to such a competitive field.

I have just joined an agility club, and i swear raz and i have the best bond, everyone is soo impressed with how much he watches me and looks to me, have to say though he is still too fast for me and makes up his own course lol