Hi everyone

As you are probably aware I had to give Molly away, she has gone onto a Koolie filled life with Royalla (thanks Royalla!). We were thinking of keeping her, but due to a psychotic dog it was not meant to be.

Who is the psycho dog, Izzy my kelpe x cattle dog. I thought everything was going well, but Izzy had other ideas. The fights were doozies, and then Izzy would stalk Molly. The last fight....well I have scars on my stomach because I went in there grabbed Izzy by the collar and had to choke her to get her to snap out of it, and then turn her back away from Molly and held her for quite sometime until she relaxed. I know you are not supposed to go into a dog fight, but I waited until I could, didn't get bitten, just scratched.

Since Molly has left, Izzy has altered a bit, she is a lot more tolerant of other dogs, especially bigger dogs, she used to freak around bigger dogs. If they now get in her face she walks away, if they persist, she growls and walks away. Bigger dogs were her major issue and that is why I thought it would be fine with another koolie but alas wasn't meant to be.

I love Izzy, and I am aware of the issues she has, she is very loyal and I enjoy her happy howls and devotion to please me. If anyone has any ideas on how to improve her 'playing well with others' further I am all ears.

Gosh Ceejay what a terrible experience! Just so pleased you didn't get more injuries. I'll leave it to others more experience to make suggestions, but would suggest contacting TJ via email.

Just keep praising the good behaviour and be very cautious not to reaffirm the negative, it is easy to do without knowing it. Let her back away when she tries to back away (when n lead), do not force it. If she growls, then turn her away and do not give her any attention other than moving her away. If she behaves well and is accepting of the other dog or the situationn she is in, then give her lots of praise and pats. Reward the good behaviour and give nothing to the bad behaviour. She will take a bit of time, but dogs can be rehabilitated a lot easier than humans, so it will probably happen quite fast (depending on how deep the mental scarring is). It's about persistance, consistancy and patience. If you are unsure about any aspect of it, see a professional trainer/handler at dog companion training (not obediance training, but companion dog training club). I feel the companion dog trainers have a better understanding of dog psychology as they don't try to control the dog's behaviour, they really understand how to modify and shape it.

I don't know any such places in Qld, but I'm sure they are out there. The companion dog training centre I take Rasta to is called Eastern Companion Dog Training (www.ecdt.com.au). Read the sections titled Behavioral Problem Solving and Boarding School - Training Program. Their motto is, they never turn away a dog as they believe all dogs can be re-trained to be social and work out the issues they have. I'm sure they would love to hear from you via email/phone if you like. I rate these people very highly, I've seen some amazing results with their handlers. They really are top shelf.

Thanks Shane will look at the site and send them an email. Izzy is a rescue she came with a bundle of baggage and nerves she has improved will let people pat her now but I have to tell them ignore her let her approach you, especially men. She was terrified of most things. This is the last hurdle so to speak and has been the hardest. So will definitely contact them.

Ceejay, having been where you are I can say that I do feel for you. I have been able to see that my actions when Ben came to live with me have created probably more problems than we would have had if I had a better understand back then of a rescue dogs situation.

The biggest mistake I did (not saying you do this but what I did) was take the "rescue dog route". I felt sorry for him, nurtured him and in fact by me doing this, he saw that I was not in control of the situation and went into defence mode. Like Izzy, Ben is still a bundle of nerves ( 3 years on) but once he learned that his actions were not acceptable in our household and I was in deed the pack leader of the house he as has settled down a lot. To give you an indication on how bad we had it, he used to turn on me and bite me, my husband and the kids if he was told to do something that he didnt want ( like go outside to the toilet at night).

So my advice is be the pack leader ( yes - I am now a Cesar convert) as it can been done in a very calm way to let her know that her behaviour is not acceptable. Dont acknowledge or nuture the behaviour you are not liking and if anything let her know that its unacceptable. It does sound like you may still have an issue I have which is that Izzy ( and Ben) trust no one - not even me. Having said that, we have all found a nice balance and a liveable balance now and no he will never be a dog that ever relaxes but he is now part of the pack. He arrived with a suitcase of baggage and my job is to help him unpack it as he wont have to pack and move again ever.

As far as seeking out help - make sure you are 100% comfortable with the person and dont ever do anything that you know will make it worse. Not all of the instructors know what they are talking about.

Just my thoughts.

Ceejay after having Molly here i think i can safely say that Ceejay was not all at fault with the fighting Molly is copping a hiding almost day from the girls here as she likes to bite (hard) on there back legs as they run spice is the one to dish out most of the hidings as she will not put up with molly biting her but even that is not keeping molly of her until the daily belting has happened then we have peace for a few hours until Molly forgets herself and starts again if i leave spice behind for our walk Molly starts on Dance or shay if it's shay all hell breaks out as shay is fixated on Ren so we get a chain reaction molly upsets shay, shay takes it out on ren and molly is still biting shay's legs so dance and connie jump in foe a free for all so it has worked out better to just take spice and let her deal with molly as spice just plants molly into the ground and does not hurt her

Wow Royalla - that's sounds like one fun household you have there! LOL Sounds like Molly certainly needed the lesson in manners she is now receiving!

CeeJay - so far as dealing with Izzy goes I can only support what Natalie says above, although I have been lucky with our rescue dogs so far and only had timidity and/or anxiety issues to deal with. Our sons dog is starting to push her weight around but our older bitch is still unwilling to relinquish her leadership. Fortunately they are both more scared of me then they are of each other - so a stern word and a step towards them has them both diving for cover while they lick their wounds.

While it doesn't sound like Izzys problems are being caused or influenced by any lack of leadership on your behalf, I know from the aggresive dogs I have delt with in the past that there can be a fine line to tread between winning a dogs trust and demanding it. Once you have established that, then you have the opportunity to lay down and enforce some real rules and boundaries. This might be where someone like the people that Shane mentioned might prove invaluable. A third party that knows what they are talking about might be best to judge where that fine line is and might be able to pinpoint some things that you need to avoid or can exploit. They will be better placed to evaluate how the two of you interact.

Regardless of all this, every day is a new one and dogs don't hold grudges. Just remember how much better you have already made her life and keep in mind that you do already deserve her respect.

No it's all good i am boss and they know it and as soon as i say get out if it or leave it, if i see it about to happen it all stops and they behave Shay is getting better at not starting a fight with her daughter Ren i just have to get it into molly's head that leave it does not mean leave it for 30 seconds and then start again lol

Sorry to hear that you've had some trouble with Izzy. Fights of any kind are scary, unpleasant and can end in expensive vet bills. Fights between bitches are usually regarded in the highest aggressive order and can be to the death. I've had one client who had to throw her two bitches in a pool and hold them under water to break them up. She rehomed the dog that didn't instigate the fights and kept the aggressor.

With regard to Izzy I would contact a professional to help you. I've heard good things about Jane Harper at http://www.peninsulavet.com.au/services.htm She is in Qld, she may be able to help you through phone or email consultations.

Something that you may want to consider is how important it is to you that she gets along with other dogs. Do you want to be able to walk her with no reaction to other dogs or do you want her to be able to run off leash with other dogs and not react? Just rhetorical questions for thinking on.

Thanks everyone for your reply. I take her to my friends places, all have dogs and she has problems with the bigger dogs. She isn't fully aggressive, it is when a large dog rushes up and is in her face and stands over her and is way to hyper, that she reacts. I think this is more of a fear problem. With Molly this was the first time that I had seen her like that. Molly pushed and pushed until Izzy snapped, I could guarantee when the fights would happen...every 5 days.

I did see something the other day that gave me hope, one of my friends has gotten a kelpie x german shepherd male (7 months), at first it was I am ignoring you and a growl when he got hyper around her. Two days ago, she was sniffing his butt and doing a low tail wag. Which I praised her for, she then went into a play bow.

I have contacted the trainer that Shane recommended, I will also email the trainer you recommended Bluedog. I just want to make sure that I am doing everything I can right, and I don't want to contribute to her problem.

I love her to bits, and she is loyal and we do have a bond. Oh and the friend that I visit with the kelpie x german shepherd is also the person that has her nemesis Pearl, the one that used to hound her when she lived there. No problems from there, and Pearl stays out of her way now, maybe she can sense the confidence change in her. As when she lived there, she was a bundle of nerves, peeing when you came close and running away. So to even to gain her trust was a big and slow process.

I hope you get some help from the contacts you've made.

Izzy may not be very tolerant of hyper dogs in her face. Cattle dogs are not always tolerant of over dogs (a generalisation I know) and this part of her make up may be influencing her behaviour too. Some dogs are more in your face than others too. I find gundogs tend to intrude more into personal space than other breeds, working breeds tend to give other dogs space (generalising again!). If she's giving signals to the other dog to buzz off and they're ignored she may up the signal to a lunge and snap to really get the message across. Watch her closely and if you see she's uncomfortable take her away from the situation but do praise her up for good behaviour. If you're relaxed it will help her relax too. If you think a dog is too hyper or in your face don't take her near that dog or into that situation. This will help her to trust you that you are not going to put her in situations where she's uncomfortable.

You may want to look at some of the exercises in Leslie McDevitt's "Control Unleashed" for helping her to cope with stressful situations. If you can find dogs she tolerates well and will play with it can help her but make sure play sessions are kept short and supervised.

That's my general advice!

Bit of an update with Izzy. I didn't get any replies from the trainers so I have been trying a few things. With the playing well with others, we had two extra dogs in the mix a Rottie and Bull Mastiff x on the weekend plus the normal mix. She told off my friends young Rottie mix by holding the muzzle and growling, I reprimanded her and she walked away. The cause she was getting towel dried and had her head covered and he came bounding over and nudged her. She did the same with a German Shepherd cross that runs straight at her, which in turn ends in a blue. She grabbed muzzle and growled, then walked away no fighting. (yay)

I have noticed two things she is using her nose around strange dogs now, faces them rather than avoids, then walks away or decides to play. She howled/play barked at two strange dogs today walking by. So an improvement.

I changed my attitude, I don't panic or shout anymore. I walk in calmly, nudge her and say 'ah' with my librarian attitude. That snaps her out of it, did this a few times and I think she has the hang of it.

So now I have to instigate the nose with people knocking on the door, rather than her going off into her reactive bark. I am going to try treats to get her nose going.